ok guys, didn't do anything with the car today but yesterday I pulled the gas tank out...
After getting all the gas out...it had like 3 gallons in it and it didn't look dirty as it was coming out so I was kind of happy BUT then...I looked inside and here is what I saw. (I tried to take the best picture possible and after like ten tries (thank God for technology and digital pictures...no waiting to see how they lool)

So what do you guys think...is this corrosion on the bottom and Yes, it's all over the botom. I really didn't see any on the walls. I tried to remove it and see if it was just supervisial but it didn't look like it...should I replace or repair and how???

Also, what's is that can on top of the tank? A filter? I really didn't try messing with it.

Thanks
Manny

There is nothing wrong with that gas tank. Fill it with plain white vineager few a few days, and all that stuff inside will disappear. Rinse it out afterwards, and vacuum any left over water, then leave it in the sun for a couple of hours to dry. That think on top is an air vent filter.

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'S all for now
Vic

Oh Man that is great news!! Someone else told me to throw some pebbles in it with some detergent and shake it till I couldn't any more...maybe I can do both?
The shake process and the the vinegar process...Making sure I rinse it very well to get all the pebbles out.
Honestly now that I think about it, I'm a little concern that one pebble will stay in there and then do more damage...maybe the vinegar process will be just fine.

Maybe someone else will jump in and add to this

Thanks!! at least it looks like I can make this one work...and a bottle of vinegar is cheap. How much vinegar should I use...a gallon?

v/r
Manny

Use the vinegar I say! My tank was horrible with scales of rust everywhere inside. I got a few jugs of vinegar and poured them in along with some water. Then I would let it sit for about a day then rotate it. Do the same for a few days while rotating it more frequentlly (every 6-8 hours or so). Rotating is important because if you let it sit, the waterline (vinegar line) inside creates a line of rust due to the moisture in the small air void! The more frequent you rotate it, the easier it is to avoid the rust line. Just an fyi, due to the shape of the tank and the fill neck extending well into the tank, it is impossible to absolutely fill it without air pockets no matter what- hence the rotating. I removed the fuel sender and sealed all the holes with caulk and sheets of plastic from a yogurt lid. Once the tank looks clean, pour out the vinegar and flush it with some water and baking soda to nuetralize the acid. Rinse more. Then dry it out. I didn't have much sun up here at the time and I was concerned with flash rusting so I stuck a hairdryerin the spout and let it flow out the holes for about 30 minutes. The tank was bone dry and spotless at this point. Lastly, I went out and spent $15 on a small can of POR 15 tank sealer. I will state that POR only recommends using THEIR Multi step process. I was on a budget so instead of buying their etching formula and tank cleaning solution, I just used the vinegar. I did not want to spend $80! Anyway, just so you know I have had no problems and I don't think I will- if this makes you uneasy, buy their full kit!
If you do it my way, get the sealer and mix it WELL!!! Make sure its not too cold otherwise it doesn't mix well. Pour it in and slosh it about. Make sure it does not clog the vent tube and fuel feed threads. I coated them with vaseline to aid in cleaning later and to prevent the sealer from sticking in those areas. Pour out the remaining when you think it has coated well. It will puddle in some low spots but it will still dry. Give it a few days and all should be well! It doesnt dry rock hard btw, more of a hard skin. Hope this helps!

-Hamid

Hamid, first stupid question...if it cleans out good...why used the sealer? added protection? got it, but in my case I would be afraid of cloggin something...so would you say the vinegar process will be enough?

Plug up the hole of the sender unit, take off the vent air filter, and fill the top of the tank through that little hole. I like to use straight vinegar, it costs about a buck a gallon, so you'll need 10 gallons to fill the tank completely, no air gaps. Once it has gas in it again, no more problems.

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'S all for now
Vic

My attempts of filling through the vent pipes did not work. Actually, from what I remember, those little vent holes are lower than the fill neck, so again, you cant eliminate all of the air bubbles! There will always be an air pocket or bubbles. I tried every method- even filling from the fuel sender hole. Those little air bubbles can cause thick rust if you're not thorough, especially with vinegar in there. There are no holes that are located at a "high point" except for the fuel fill pipe, but again it extends well into the tank. Take a flashlight and look in there and you'll see.
I scoured all automotive forums for tips on using vinegar, electrolosis etc. The best info I found was on motorcycle forums because they deal with rusty tanks all the time with many bikes ridden only seasonally. With vinegar, there is a very low content of actual acid, but it can still etch the metal to a lesser extent. Once metal is etched it leaves the steel more succeptable to rust. Many riders that used the vinegar without a sealant reported flash rust if they didn't have the tank constantly full of fuel. Once the tanks were, say half full, and sat that way for a short time the rust would come back and contaminate the fuel due to the space of moist air in the tank. Another issue is the large amounts of ethanol in fuel nowadays. This is a magnet for moisture! Some tanks are more succeptable to rust depending on the quality of steel, but I was not willing to take the chance! I also don't believe in the "just keep it full of gas" technique. Sure, if your storing it it's fine, but on a daily or weekly basis? I would also treat the fuel if I was storing it anyway.

That's my two 'sense'

-Hamid

Let me see if I understand correctly.
To remove rust off the gas tank:
1. seal the gas neck (where you pump gas in)
2. disconnect the air vent filter and all rubber hoses (from both line)
3. cap both lines (air vent and out going gas)
4. lay the gas tank down so the sender hole is facing up
5. remove sender
6. fill up the tank with house WHITE vinegar (the one the wife uses to cook) until it flows out of the sender hole (try to get all the air out)
7. seal the sender hole unit
8. let it stand ther for 3 days (rotate every day and on the third day rotate every 6 hrs)
9. drain and inspect ... if needed repeat process for a few more days (vinegar can be reused)
10. drain and inspect ... if good flush it with some water and a box of baking soda to nuetralize the acid ... then flush with water a few times until no trace of baking soda is present
11. vacuum, hair dryer, heat gun, sun ... all of the above until dry
12. apply POR 15 fuel tank sealer ir similar product (one pint is enough)(recommend blowing low psi air (by mouth is probably just fine) through top lines to ensure product will not clog lines)
13. drink a beer and admire the new clean inside of the gas tank and find stuff to do #12
14. while the tank is out sand and paint
15. reconnect air vent, sender unit and hoses
16. disconnect fuel lines from carb and filter(s) and blow air through
17. reinstall and double check everything is clamp correctly
18. replace both fuel filters (one by the tank and one by the engine)
19. drink another beer and thank the guys in the forum that told you how to fix it
20. fill with fresh gas
DONE!!!
_____________
below questions were from the original thread...the steps above had been updated based on others feedback
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In my case...trying to get the engine running again after over 10 years
21. hope that the sender and gauge works and that fuel flows to the carb when I turn the key


Well, a couple of quick questions.
1. no shacking required...the vinegar does all the work by itself and the rust its jsut going to flow out when I drain it?
2. Keeping in mind the car has been seating for over 10 years and I'm in the slow process to bring it back to life...any other fuel system checks, repairs, cleaning required/recommended? ie. I was thinking about disconnecting the rubber piece connecting the fuel line to the carb and the eng side fuel filter or actually cutting them out as they didn't want to come off easily last night, and then blowing some psi'd air on both directions?
I don't know, are these fuel lines hard lines going underneath the car? should I try to disconnect them and give them a vingar treatment?
3. do I need to do anything with the air vent filter? Is there a cleaning procedure for these as well?

once again, THANKS for all the help and sorry for all the questions. As soon as someone confirms my stepped process I will get the tank going and will see what you all have to say about the fuel lines and the air vent filter.

v/r
Manny



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 02:52AM by Manny1980Spitfire.

My bad, I think the fuel fill spout is actually sitting in a low spot, but the little vent tubes are not very high and I think they also extend into the tank, making it very hard to seal it full of vinegar. I spent way too much time on the inside of my fuel tank but it's spotless! My wife thought I was nuts. I wish I spent some time on the outside of the tank- that's what people see!

-Hamid

ok, so based on your research, a sealer is recommended.
Memories of my childhood...now that you mention it, I remember that when my Dad and I where trying to bring my Mom's spitfire back to life he had the tank cleaned and sealed and when he brought it back it was kind of yellowish inside.
I guess I could make a few phone calls to the local motorcycle shops and see what they use/do as well as going over to the auto parts store and see if I can find the POR 15 tank sealer.

Did you do anything to the fuel lines or the air vent filter?

Yeah you pretty much got it! Let it sit for a few days, but be sure to rotate once you know that you're temporary seals are nice and dry. Definately rotate. The process is very easy, but it took me a long time because id forget to rotate it or something and when id take the seals off and drain it I'd see that tell tale rust line from lack of rotating. Then I would fill it again and remake the seals and go through it all again. I wanted it perfect inside though! You wont need to shake anything- its truly awesome how well it works! Oh, don't pour the vinegar down the drain until you know its how you want the tank. That could get expensive. I used the same rusty vinegar for 3 different cycles and it was great- it just looks nasty.
I did not replace the rubber lines at that time, but I will at some point. My spitfire sat for about 5 years until I recently got it running. I replaced the fuel filters and removed the old fuel in the fuel line under the car by literally blowing on the rubber end in the trunk with my mouth (i had a a bit of extra hose for my mouth, so it wasnt as bad as it sounds) and the other end in a jar!!! I didn't attempt putting the vinegar in the fuel lines though, but it seems to be fine so far. Also, I don't think you need to do anything with the vent filter unless its clogged. Someone else may chime in on that one!

-Hamid

I think we're writing at the same time! You could also try having it steam cleaned at a radiator shop, but I'm happy with how mine turned out. There are other tank sealers out there but some have been known to flake off in time. One of them was red in color. I cant remember the name of it but it ruined a lot of tanks! I chose the POR brand because of all of the good reviews I heard. It looks gray when dry. I think you can even buy a can off of Amazon! You'll only need one can btw- we have very small tanks!

-Hamid

I guess we were typing at the same time
ok, so rotate every day and on the third day rotate every 6 hours making sure that nothing is leaking!

is this the POR 15 product you are talking about? and just one pint will be enough?;
http://www.amazon.com/POR-15-FUEL-TANK-SEALER-HALFPINT/dp/B001NGB57M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333956500&sr=8-1

and how do you apply it? just dump it in there and shake the hell out of the tank?

as soon as you confirm I will order it...by the time it gets here it will be the 3 to 5 days the vinegar will be in there...is there a max of time the vinegar should NOT be left in there for I mean is 5 days of vinegar too long? if so I guess I should wait until I have this product on hand...

thanks!

i updated the steps based on your feedback...just thinking someone else could benefit from this thread...we are not experts and are not responsible for anu damages BUT this is what we have/are done/doing

If I get any other info I will continue to correct/update

v/r
Manny

I agree! Not responsible for other people's outcomes, but from what I observe the results are great! Yes, that looks to be the same can I got! Not a whole lot. 16 oz. Sounds right to me. Yeah, stir it well and pour it in. It has a consistency of paint so you kind of roll and tilt the tank back and forth until you feel that its all coated. I think I did it for about 10+ minutes until it thickened a lot and then I poured some out. Pouring out is hard due to the recessed pipes but that's ok. When you set it down to dry, use several Q tips and make sure the little pipes are clear and threads are clean. It was pretty painless despite me being worried that I was going to mess it up! It's also ok to have a little scale in there, even though mine was clean. Apparently it gives the metal some tooth for the sealer to stick to. I can imagine that we're the lucky ones with such small fuel tanks! I doubt someone with a 20 gallon tank would be able to clean their tank as effectively. I had lots of rust initially, and after the vinegar I could pound on the outside of the tank with my hand and hear rust flakes falling off. That took a while to clear out, but again I think its fine if it isn't perfect. I had that same vinegar in and out of my tank for weeks, so I don't think it would have any ill effects leaving it in there for while. Also, I think I bought 5 or 6 gallons of vinegar and filled the rest with water and it still worked great. I sat it over a 5 gallon bucket btw while it sat in case a seal leaked.

-Hamid



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 03:25AM by AverageH.

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4222

I just found this on another site...they are recommending a different product...

Have you looked inside your tank after you did all this?

Manny

here is what I found (quickly...not too mcuh research yet) on Caswell's
http://www.caswellplating.com/restoration-aids/epoxy-gas-tank-sealer.html

Application Instructions

All traces of oil and gasoline should first be removed by pouring about 1 pint of acetone or lacquer thinner into the tank, and rotating the tank several times to thoroughly sluice the sides with solvent. Dispose of the contaminated solution.

When recoating your gas tank from failed Kreem or POR-15 tank sealers, remove the old, failed coating using a paint stripper containing Methylene Chloride.

Place a hand full of drywall screws into the tank and shake them around vigorously for several minutes. These will dislodge any loose particles of rust. In the case of Fiberglass and plastic tanks, this will rough up the tank interior, improving adhesion.

Rinse out the tank with about 1-pint of acetone or lacquer thinner, then set aside and allow to dry. Use an airline to blow air into the tank to aid drying.

Apply duct tape or masking tape to any weeping seams, holes or porous areas. This will stop any Gas Tank Sealer from oozing out, and will allow it to bridge over the hole. Plug the outlet ports with putty or Play-Doh. Mix up the required amount of Gas Tank Sealer (one unit should treat two small motorcycle tanks or one large one) If you are only treating ONE small tank, then divide parts A & B in half. You could use a dipstick to gauge this.

In a separate plastic container (margarine tub etc.) mix the two parts together thoroughly for at least 2 minutes. Scrape around the sides to ensure all resin is blended together. BAD MIXING AND BAD MEASURING IS THE #1 CAUSE OF FAILURE!!

Pour into the tank, then immediately seal up the filler hole with Gladwrap and an elastic band. Swill the tank around in every direction for several minutes to obtain a good layer of Gas Tank Sealer over all surfaces. Remove the filler cap,Gladwrap seal, and pour out any excess. Allow to drain upside down for a few minutes.
If you have a built in fuel filter, blow air into the fuel line port for about 10 minutes. This will clear the filter of any Gas Tank Sealer.

Scrape off any excess with a sharp knife at this point (usually about 40-60 Min after mixing) Place the tank in a warm 70-90 f place and allow to cure overnight. In the case of alcohol fuels, allow 3-5 days at room temperature, or 24 hours at 120 deg f.

ok, after a few hrs of reading feedback on POR15 vs Caswell...I think I'm going with Caswell...you don't even have to worry about the rust in the tank...

but I'm going to bed now 0430am...good thing I don't have to go to work tomorrow!

anyone wants to give me any more feedback?

I might have to completly update the steps if I go with Caswell...

Manny, your tank is in great shape, once you rinse it with vinegar for 2 days, it'll be fine.

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'S all for now
Vic

Jeeze! I have never seen that thread before, despite all the research I did. Funny, ive read nothing but bad reviews with Kreme and redkote! I know that POR 15 products are highly regarded though. Especially for rust prevention on car frames and undercarriage. Seems that its popular in the UK. I have not noticed any issues with my tank, but I'll check it again today. I could tell it bonded really well once it dried though, which was about a week. I couldn't peel it off if I tried! From all that ive read, it seems really hit and miss no matter what you do! Your findings on caswell products was very similar to my findings on POR products at the time. I sealed the tank about a year ago btw. I agree in that your tank looks really nice for the most part. I guess its all an experiment in the end and using the forums is how we learn from other peoples experiences. Let us know how it works for you!

-Hamid